Coolant Pump... not running with ignition on

[snydes]

Update:

Got the MX back. I got back from a job this morning which was the first chance I had to ride the bike. No good. The water pump is still not working. I called the dealer and without needing to ask they offered to pick the bike up immediately.

At this point I think I need to talk with Alta.

Hello week 5 and beyond.

Thats rotten... that should have never left the shop! ONE JOB!!!

 

[Philip]

This is starting to smell like lemons.

 

[OneLapper]

I don't want to throw anyone under the bus, but how could the service manager let the bike leave? I asked him if he realized the pump wasn't working after they did the repairs and he replied with "We did everything Alta told us to do". He didn't answer my question and a reasonably not happy customer might be able to misconstrue his comment as he knew the pump wasn't working but justified letting go because they "did everything Alta told us to do".

I called and left Alta service a voicemail. Hopefully I'll get a call back. At this point I'd like to fix it myself with the regional service rep.

 

[snydes]

I don't want to throw anyone under the bus, but how could the service manager let the bike leave? I asked him if he realized the pump wasn't working after they did the repairs and he replied with "We did everything Alta told us to do". He didn't answer my question and a reasonably not happy customer might be able to misconstrue his comment as he knew the pump wasn't working but justified letting go because they "did everything Alta told us to do".

I called and left Alta service a voicemail. Hopefully I'll get a call back. At this point I'd like to fix it myself with the regional service rep.

I’d agree with those assumptions. I’d be upset.

 

[Happy Neighbors]

I don't want to throw anyone under the bus, but how could the service manager let the bike leave? I asked him if he realized the pump wasn't working after they did the repairs and he replied with "We did everything Alta told us to do". He didn't answer my question and a reasonably not happy customer might be able to misconstrue his comment as he knew the pump wasn't working but justified letting go because they "did everything Alta told us to do".

I called and left Alta service a voicemail. Hopefully I'll get a call back. At this point I'd like to fix it myself with the regional service rep.

I would also email, I have had good luck with sending emails to info@altamotors.co and describing problem, adding my serial number and my name and contact info, a service ticket is usually issued by the next day, and I get a call or email on what the next step to try will be.

 

[OneLapper]

I would also email, I have had good luck with sending emails to info@altamotors.co and describing problem, adding my serial number and my name and contact info, a service ticket is usually issued by the next day, and I get a call or email on what the next step to try will be.

I have a service ticket with Alta that's been open since May 3rd. And I've had short email from them, too. Now it's time for a chat, a nice chat, but a chat nonetheless.

 

[Mark911]

It's just a simple single speed motor! There's no logic other than "is the key on, if so close the pump relay". if Alta can't figure it out I can think of a few ways to work around it.

 

[WoodsWeapon]

This is an Alta problem, but your dealer should never have let it leave their building knowing it wasnt right. I raised an eyebrow from the beginning of this thread regarding your dealer.

 

[snydes]

True, it shouldn’t have left from new and it certainly shouldn’t have left the second time.

 

[Mark911]

Dealers are only as good as the people working there. It's tough to get knowledgeable technicians, particularly when it comes to electronics. Yes, they have access to "dealer only" diagnostic tools but as the saying goes GIGO. I'll bet the dealer was just as frustrated (with Alta apparently) and I think it showed in their response. New technology like our Altas needs a higher level of factory service support until the new tech is absorbed and understood by the dealer network (which increases weekly). This requires dedicated resources (local service reps, etc) all over the country and for a small company like Alta just isn't doable right now.

So we have this big gap between dealer service capability and the factory and the situation hasn't got much better over the last year based on my experience. I think most of us have more technical knowledge regarding our bikes than most typical dealers who probably saw a cheap opportunity to get into the bottom floor of a potentially lucrative market. When sales didn't quite match expectations (2017) I doubt they were too quick to staff/train on the new service technology.

Now that sales are up I hope they'll be motivated to make the investment. Of course, this assumes that the cost reductions didn't cut their margins to the point where again it's simply not financially viable. The same goes for Alta as a company! If you need to sacrifice financial viability just to sell bikes I hope there's enough money in the coffers to grow until the economics of scale kick in.

 

[snydes]

Well said

 

[Oded]

My previous bike was an electric Zero.
One of the main issues with the Zeros was the support given by the dealers. Every small problem took days - weeks to be resolved, because of Zero policy not to work directly with the customers. They took their time answering dealer's questions, and spare parts took a long time to arrive.

Alta seems much more passionate about customer support, but I really hope they have a different customer support model than Zero.

 

[OneLapper]

I have a service ticket with Alta that's been open since May 3rd. And I've had short email from them, too. Now it's time for a chat, a nice chat, but a chat nonetheless.

Update: I've had several nice chats with Alta in the last week. They have been very good at keeping me up to date over the past week or so. One of them mentioned that he read this thread and reached out to me let me know he was overseeing this to ensure it gets done asap.

Alta is now shipping parts overnight and working with the dealership on a daily basis. These motorcycles are obviously very high tech, cool by most measures, but in this case it has delayed the repair. By design, each electrical component has to be matched to the ACM after it, or a water pump, is replaced. To perform the adaptation the dealer plugs the bike into their Alta laptop and an Alta engineer performs the task remotely. For my particular bike, this adaptation of the individual components to the new ACM is failing. Why it's failing is the issue.

Alta told me that they are "throwing the kitchen sink" at the bike and the expense to fix it is not being considered.

One interesting point: The water pump isn't 100% necessary. Obviously it assists keeping the motor and inverter cool, but the ACM will limit output to prevent overheating with or without the pump. Fast riding longer and faster charging are possible with a working water pump, but no permanent damage will occur. This info is from Alta directly.

But here I am half way through week 6. I think I'm going to ask for some Alta swag when this ordeal is over. Size Large. Qty two. LOL!

 

[ElectroBraap]

Update: I've had several nice chats with Alta in the last week. They have been very good at keeping me up to date over the past week or so. One of them mentioned that he read this thread and reached out to me let me know he was overseeing this to ensure it gets done asap.

Alta is now shipping parts overnight and working with the dealership on a daily basis. These motorcycles are obviously very high tech, cool by most measures, but in this case it has delayed the repair. By design, each electrical component has to be matched to the ACM after it, or a water pump, is replaced. To perform the adaptation the dealer plugs the bike into their Alta laptop and an Alta engineer performs the task remotely. For my particular bike, this adaptation of the individual components to the new ACM is failing. Why it's failing is the issue.

Alta told me that they are "throwing the kitchen sink" at the bike and the expense to fix it is not being considered.

One interesting point: The water pump isn't 100% necessary. Obviously it assists keeping the motor and inverter cool, but the ACM will limit output to prevent overheating with or without the pump. Fast riding longer and faster charging are possible with a working water pump, but no permanent damage will occur. This info is from Alta directly.

But here I am half way through week 6. I think I'm going to as for some Alta swag when this ordeal is over. Size Large. Qty two. LOL!

You deserve at least 3.7 Shirts for this!

 

[OneLapper]

Yesterday I received a call from Alta. The dealer finished the repairs and the bike is working as it's supposed to, specifically, the water pump is running when the bike is keyed on. I don't have the bike back yet, I asked the dealer to return it to me by the weekend.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that the quality of work is up to my standards (it's a fault of mine, but my cars, bikes, etc are in the best possible mechanical condition, proper fasteners, clamps, etc. Race car prep is something I used to be okay at.) I'm getting ahead of myself since I havent seen the work they did.

According to Alta the bike received a new ACM, new water pump, and a new wiring harness. The new ACM did not fix the problem. Alta is shipping the old parts back and will determine which component was the issue. This is, I was told, the first water pump issue they have had.

I expressed my concern / opinion to Alta as to what would have happened if this repair was not under warranty. I have been in this warranty situation before, but on the dealer side, stuck between the OEM and the customer, in which a piece of equipment just isn't right. Not once in all my years in business did I break even with warranty reimbursements from the OEMs, nor did they pay at posted labor rates when they did pay. Alta's reply to my concern was to explain that through their software, they hope to fine tune it so the electronics do the diagnostics for the dealer. They are working hard to get the system to the point that the dealer plugs the bike into the laptop and the system pinpoints to the faulty component, therefore not relying on the dealer or the tech to understand the technology.

Hopefully this weekend I'll have one final update to this saga.

 

[snydes]

I hope it’s a done deal. Let us know.

 

[OneLapper]

I got the bike back Thursday, got back to the house on Friday night and I can happily report that the water pump is working as it's supposed to. I will say that, though, there are several issues that need be addressed that are dealer related; missing hardware, stripped inserts, low coolant level. One delta wing had only one bolt holding it on, the rear one, missing was the front bolt, zip tie, and the top bolt pulled out the thread insert with it.

I will admit my standards are higher than most. It's for this reason I do 99% of all maintenance, repairs and upgrades to my vehicles.

 

[Philip]

Glad you finally got your bike back and running. I would ask for a replacement delta wing and bolts. Hopefully no more trips to the dealer any time soon.

 

[snydes]

I got the bike back Thursday, got back to the house on Friday night and I can happily report that the water pump is working as it's supposed to. I will say that, though, there are several issues that need be addressed that are dealer related; missing hardware, stripped inserts, low coolant level. One delta wing had only one bolt holding it on, the rear one, missing was the front bolt, zip tie, and the top bolt pulled out the thread insert with it.

I will admit my standards are higher than most. It's for this reason I do 99% of all maintenance, repairs and upgrades to my vehicles.

I wouldn’t think any of those things are unreasonable. That’s the kind of crap you see from flat rate mechanics.

 

[OneLapper]

I got an email from Alta yesterday letting me know they are shipping out the last of the parts to me to fix the issues I brought to their attention. The parts I needed were to replace or fix the missing hardware, spinning inserts, etc. Those parts should arrive this week! Looking forward to a real ride with my buddies at the state forests.....