AMA and Electric Motorcycles in AMA races

[DonCox]

If you are an AMA member, and plan on racing ANY AMA race , I'm sorry, but we are explicitly excluded for any AMA competition. A friend with a Yamaha conversion wanted to try to qualify for Lorreta Lynns, and was told he couldn't. He called AMA and got Mike Burkeens on the phone. Simple answer it is in the rules and NO. He was very adamant about it. I am being nice with only that word.
My friend who want to race his electric, has a handicap that does not allow him to shift, due to an accident. So cannot ride a stardand bike in that race, the Lorretta Lynn qualifiers, Mammoth , any AMA race. An Alta or 2 got to race mammoth in the past, but now they will not be allowed. Let alone all the new Stark owners.
So if you are an AMA member and want to race AMA races, and all 40+ and older classes, are open motor size classes, so it could be a 100 or a 500cc or Stark power, you need to talk to someone to get you voice heard. This rule needs to be changed. The manufactures got the Mini bikes included because they sell them. What can we do?
Here is the new rule addendum.

2024 Supplemental Rules - MX Sports

AMA amateur national championship rules

mxsports.com

 

[Number Six]

Any proponents & current manufacturers of electric MX bikes are up against some significant headwinds for electric being able to participate in AMA sanctioned events anytime soon.

- Honda, KTM , et, al likely ( surely ) have outsized influence in the rule making process of the AMA, so until they sell such equipment ...
- There is genuine fear on behalf of AMA of 'getting it wrong' yet again as was done with four strokes in sanctioned competition.
It's far easier to just exclude than to devise equitable regulations, at least in their minds apparently.

It is surprising that electric doesn't appear to be allowed in amateur level sanctioned events, didn't the AMA recently allow 250cc two strokes to compete directly in the 250 classes at the amateur level after years of exclusion based on them having an 'unfair advantage' with regard to peak HP ?

Currently there's just one manufacturer & a comparative handful of enthusiasts that could be considered stakeholders that would benefit from electrics being allowed to compete so large numbers aren't on the side of electric inclusion.
Perhaps when more & more consumers, & AMA members / decision makers buy & ride electric bikes & experience the benefits, there would be more overall interest in seeing them compete alongside ICE machines ?
It also wouldn't hurt the prospect if Honda is able ( & willing ) to bring their full sized electric MX bike into production, then there would most likely be the rule change desired, witness the mini's being allowed ; it's no coincidence as KTM & Honda both manufacture & distribute those models.
.

 

[Philip]

I have been thinking about this topic. Everyone seems to be accepting it as given that the AMA (American Motorcyclists Association) represents their own financial interests first, the interests of motorcycle manufacturers second, and the interests of motorcycle riders maybe third or lower. This is really shocking.

Is the AMA misnamed, and should it be renamed the Motorcycle Manufacturers Association? Are we allowing such obvious corruption to pass unnoticed?

Twenty years ago they were busy banning 2-strokes in the name of following environmental regulations. Now they are banning electric bikes despite the environmental regulations but in the name of safety. The electric motorcycles are "too quiet".

The kids' electric mini-bike class is allowed, though. Apparently, it is safe for little kids to race electric bikes that are made by KTM, but it is not safe for adults to race electric bikes that are many by other manufacturers.

The only winners in all cases are existing high-volume motorcycle manufacturers, a.k.a. AMA "donors".

MX tracks and riding areas keep closing because the current non-electric motorcycles are "too loud". The riders keep losing. We can't race 2-strokes competitively, and we can't race electric bikes in premier classes. Now we cannot race electric bikes in any AMA-sanctioned competition, period.

BTW, the friend that Don is speaking about was personally threatened by an AMA official with a LIFETIME BAN from all AMA races if AMA finds out that he entered any AMA race on an electric bike. The race organizers may lose their insurance coverage too if they allow the bikes that the AMA rules do not allow. That's it.

So... Whose side is the AMA on?

 

[Number Six]

So... Whose side is the AMA on?

It's not entirely clear .. when their webpage is opened , readers are greeted with the page below which is difficult to reconcile with their actions regarding electric competition bikes.

 

[F451]

The AMA has been a joke for years. I stopped wasting my membership money with them years ago and now support my local off-road organizations that actually fight for trail access and get things done like partnering with gov't and other trail user groups to maintain existing trails, and open new ones.

I don't race in any AMA series so I'm not forced into buying a membership so I can compete. On the rare occasion that I would do a race (years ago), there wasn't an AMA membership req't (Desert 100, Starvation Ridge 24 hr, etc).

The AMA is a giant lobbying organization for the big OEM's masquerading as a motorcycle riders rights organization.

 

[Philip]

Someone should expose this hyper-hypocrisy. What a scam. What a shame.

 

[snydes]

As soon as KTM is ready with their electric offerings those rules will change overnight.

 

[Swank171]

I’ve bee saying this for years….the benifit to killing 2 strokes is the millions in parts and maintenance caused by putting us in on 4 strokes and getting all the advertisement put in 4 strokes…..2 strokes were affordable for the vet and privateer…..they killed it in the name of the environment but now the very “mandatory by 2030” electric movement is banned because the OEMS stand to lose all this money/profit we spend on maintaining these rattle boxes….

I’ve been very outspoken about this. They wanted 4 strokes to wreck us in cost to own and purchase marking everything up and giving us a product that costs 5x to maintain.

Now look….a startup like stark has done it and so has alta….KTM has had the freeride unchanged for how long…?

Ask yourself why…? There is no money is this for them compared to what they get out of the crap we are riding.

They have the funds to do RND and have 10x the bike alta had by now but DONT DO IT FOR A REASON!

The corruption in the country we live in has spread from politics to every sport we love.

This has to stop. It’s disgusting.
I LOVE MY ICE BIKES but only free markets are FAIR.

This crap has been making me sick for years.

Let’s be clear…..none of this has to do with the environment…it has to do with every one of these CEOs and politicians getting bigger private jets to fly around in while they figure out how to let us do less.

 

[Mikec265]

Ronnie Mac calls them the "Gay M A". I agree with him.

 

[Swank171]

Ronnie Mac calls them the "Gay M A". I agree with him.

Just one of many wisdombombs from uncle MaC

 

[HadesOmega]

I race my Sur Ron Light Bee in AMA D36 Cross Country and Enduro races. I race in AMA Supermoto races also but the minibike ones that don't really count. I hate that AMA outlawed helmet cameras...

 

[B. FRANK]

as a long time Ama member I hate to say that it may be time to boycott that out of date thinking group and start our own e.m.a. all we need is an Elon musk type to champion us. if the a.m.a. will not move into the future with us perhaps they should become the past. ps. I really hope they take their heads out of their butts long enough to read this.

 

[B. FRANK]

as an after thought, ebikes are the only true motorcycles! i.c.e. bikes are actually enginecycles, that's what the "e" in i.c.e. stands for! electric motor vs. gas engine. the a.m.a must change their name or represent us.

 

[Bionicman]

& I was laughed at & dismissed when I said the big 5 motorcycle manufacturers killed Alta

Until a Honda or KTM come out with something you can buy off a dealer floor competitive with a Stark - NO lol

 

[Swank171]

& I was laughed at & dismissed when I said the big 5 motorcycle manufacturers killed Alta

Until a Honda or KTM come out with something you can buy off a dealer floor competitive with a Stark - NO lol

It was so obvious when they went for the knees like Tawnya Harding!!

Immediately electric had an unfair advantage when 15 years earlier nothing was unfair when it’s for the environment! ROFL!

It was like a slow motion train wreck then they pulled the rug.

 

[DirtFirst]

If you are an AMA member, and plan on racing ANY AMA race , I'm sorry, but we are explicitly excluded for any AMA competition. A friend with a Yamaha conversion wanted to try to qualify for Lorreta Lynns, and was told he couldn't. He called AMA and got Mike Burkeens on the phone. Simple answer it is in the rules and NO. He was very adamant about it. I am being nice with only that word.
My friend who want to race his electric, has a handicap that does not allow him to shift, due to an accident. So cannot ride a stardand bike in that race, the Lorretta Lynn qualifiers, Mammoth , any AMA race. An Alta or 2 got to race mammoth in the past, but now they will not be allowed. Let alone all the new Stark owners.
So if you are an AMA member and want to race AMA races, and all 40+ and older classes, are open motor size classes, so it could be a 100 or a 500cc or Stark power, you need to talk to someone to get you voice heard. This rule needs to be changed. The manufactures got the Mini bikes included because they sell them. What can we do?
Here is the new rule addendum.

2024 Supplemental Rules - MX Sports

AMA amateur national championship rules

mxsports.com

We raced our electric bikes in three AMA National Hare and Hound races in 2020/2021, and AMA NGPC races in 2022. In 2023 we raced the AMA National Championship for Electric Bikes which was determined by results at the Tennessee Knockout Hard Enduro. To say you can’t race an electric bike in any AMA race is just not true. Maybe specify that you can’t race an electric bike in the AMA MX Championships to avoid misleading anyone.

 

[Philip]

We raced our electric bikes in three AMA National Hare and Hound races in 2020/2021, and AMA NGPC races in 2022. In 2023 we raced the AMA National Championship for Electric Bikes which was determined by results at the Tennessee Knockout Hard Enduro. To say you can’t race an electric bike in any AMA race is just not true. Maybe specify that you can’t race an electric bike in the AMA MX Championships to avoid misleading anyone.

Please don't start a fight. Many of us raced in AMA races in the past. There were no rules against electric bikes until the 2024 AMA Rules came out.

 

[Swank171]

Let’s talk about how Taddy got rugged by the FIM when stark designed the bike based on the rules and they changed them a day prior to the event…..rug pulling one of the best hard enduro riders in the world…..

Nothing to see here! Everything is fine!!

This is bigger than the AMA and that’s the point we are making. The corruption is coming from the moto mafia industry and needs to be stopped. A free market is a fair market….

 

[UKLee]

Let’s talk about how Taddy got rugged by the FIM when stark designed the bike based on the rules and they changed them a day prior to the event…..rug pulling one of the best hard enduro riders in the world…..

Nothing to see here! Everything is fine!!

This is bigger than the AMA and that’s the point we are making. The corruption is coming from the moto mafia industry and needs to be stopped. A free market is a fair market….

As I understand it the official reason was because it was not an enduro bike meaning it does not come with the documents to make it road legal, not sure about in the USA but over here in the UK the ktm enduro bikes come with loads of emission stuff on them and the bike will hardly run. The dealers then remove all this stuff so the customer can use the bike, not sure how legal this is and it seems pointless but that is the way around the emissions laws. Might be about type approval also?

The noise thing is BS if they think it is a problem they should make all the MX bikes use full standard enduro exhausts then they might hear the electric bikes ok and maybe still have some tracks left to use not all been shut down due to noise.

For what it is worth I think there could be issues with the electric bikes just look at moto E they are very carefull with crashed bikes which have warning lights to say if they are safe or not, if it is not safe they stop the race and bring in a skid steer to move the bike and marshalls any where near the bike have thick rubber gloves face screens and these lith-ex fire extinguishers which I am told are next to usless but the best there is and ticks a box!
As I understand it racing an electric bike at a MX event then putting it on charge between motos is the best way of building up heat in the battery which increases the chance of a lithium battery fire, if one goes up in flames and takes other riders equipment with it whilst on charge in the pits there is going to be big problems with the insurance.

Would someone with more knowlage than me tell me....
What are the chances of a battery fire?
Does the battery in a stark have enough power to kill you or do you harm?
Is it possible for another riders foot peg to smash the starks very exposed battery case and give him an electric shock?

I thought Stark would have had all this sorted out before going in to production but clearly not, it could be we have been sold bikes that are not fit for purpose.

 

[Beagle]

As I understand it the official reason was because it was not an enduro bike meaning it does not come with the documents to make it road legal, not sure about in the USA but over here in the UK the ktm enduro bikes come with loads of emission stuff on them and the bike will hardly run. The dealers then remove all this stuff so the customer can use the bike, not sure how legal this is and it seems pointless but that is the way around the emissions laws. Might be about type approval also?

The noise thing is BS if they think it is a problem they should make all the MX bikes use full standard enduro exhausts then they might hear the electric bikes ok and maybe still have some tracks left to use not all been shut down due to noise.

For what it is worth I think there could be issues with the electric bikes just look at moto E they are very carefull with crashed bikes which have warning lights to say if they are safe or not, if it is not safe they stop the race and bring in a skid steer to move the bike and marshalls any where near the bike have thick rubber gloves face screens and these lith-ex fire extinguishers which I am told are next to usless but the best there is and ticks a box!
As I understand it racing an electric bike at a MX event then putting it on charge between motos is the best way of building up heat in the battery which increases the chance of a lithium battery fire, if one goes up in flames and takes other riders equipment with it whilst on charge in the pits there is going to be big problems with the insurance.

Would someone with more knowlage than me tell me....
What are the chances of a battery fire?
Does the battery in a stark have enough power to kill you or do you harm?
Is it possible for another riders foot peg to smash the starks very exposed battery case and give him an electric shock?

I thought Stark would have had all this sorted out before going in to production but clearly not, it could be we have been sold bikes that are not fit for purpose.

You make some good points but Stark not making an Enduro version cannot explain the FIM decision, they knew from the start that there is no Enduro version yet (Taddy is helping developing it), they have authorized the Varg then rescinded their authorization less than 24h before the first race. Shamefully the FIM did not bother to provide an explanation but this cannot be it since they had been working with Stark for so long (lanyard killswitch, dedicated fire marshal and so on), they did not suddenly discover there is no Enduro version.

About battery fires it is definitely something to take into account. For instance MotoE had one fire, burnt all the dedicated pit and bikes, just before their first season, but that's it. They do have trained marshals, dedicated safety procedures and of course separate pits. There have been no electric or fire incident from their 5 years of racing and hundreds of crashes. FIM and AMA may have to add some safety training and provide separate pits or charging station for electrics but that is no big deal (just make them charge in the parking lot outside of the Enduro arena).

Above all these points cannot explain the FIM banning the Varg at the last minute since it was all foreseeable... and electrics have been legal to race in FIM super enduro and AMA Enduro cross for years (Alta even podium in Enduro cross). If it had anything to do with safety, battery fire, noise, whatever, the FIM could just say so. Still no official reason provided for their last minute change of mind makes it a murky business, and a bad look for the sport.

Enduro21 has a great coverage on this:

Say What? Riders quotes and notes from 2024 SuperEnduro Rnd 1 in France

What Billy, Jonny and Will had to say after the podium and the big talking points after round one of the 2024 SuperEnduro World Championship in Lievin, France – plus more on the FIM’s decision to stop Stark and Taddy Blazusiak from racing.

enduro21.com

Initial concerns around the Varg meeting regulations were all met by Stark who say they did everything and more to conform to the FIM demands. So too did the French organisers and the SuperEnduro series promoters who were certainly ready for the big exclusive. But in the end the FIM changed their rulebook less than 24 hours before the technical inspection opened in the Stade Couvert.
The regulations have included electric powered motorcycles for several years, since KTM in fact fielded a Freeride, and they remained in the FIM documents as late as Thursday (which was the last time Enduro21 took a look). But late Thursday night the rulebook had suddenly been updated to show the open categorisation (E1, E2 and E3 for all classes) no longer included electric motorcycles.

And follow up articles:

Pro Bike: Closer look at the hottest topic right now, Taddy Blazusiak’s Stark Varg

Enduro21 takes a closer look at the hottest topic in enduro right now, the Stark Varg electric motorcycle Taddy Blazusiak was set to debut at round one of the 2024 SuperEnduro World Championship in France.

enduro21.com

5 Minutes…Taddy Blazusiak talks Stark – why he made the move and what the Varg is like to ride

Enduro21 catches five with Taddy Blazusiak to talk about the shock move to Stark Future to race the SuperEnduro World Championship (that was the intention!) and develop the Varg electric off-road motorcycle for enduro.

enduro21.com