Tesla Powerwall


Philip

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Recently @rayivers introduced us all to an idea of having a Tesla Powerwall installed in your van.

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He said it's cool, but the $6.6K + installation price tag made it not as cool as it were if it also had been cheap.

However, I keep coming back to this idea. This is simply because the gas generator options are either big and loud, or big and heavy and expensive, or expensive and exist only in Europe, or require an additional step-up 120-240V transformer.

I own a big 240V generator and a small 110V generator. Today I took the small one to the track with me. A friend came from Ohio and the two of us took my two bikes, jumped in my van, and went. I took the small one because I knew the place would be packed, and I knew I would have to park far away from others to use the big and loud one. So I did not take it.

Typically I can do three sessions in Map 2. But recently I started riding in Map 4 more. It is more fun at high speed and allows me to clear bigger jumps. Well, my one bike lasted only 1.5 sessions, and my beginner friend got almost four sessions out of his. We plugged in one bike and then the other to charge, but we were only able to milk one more session out of them. Even then, the smaller and relatively quiet generator was annoying and not very effective. The only way to enjoy the bike in Map 4 all day long is to keep the bike plugged into 240V at all times.

So, besides the cheap and loud 240V generators, all other options are ridiculously expensive. The 240V Inverter in a Van or Truck option is the most appealing to me. No need to drag the big generator in and out of the van, buy gas for it, and then listen to it make noise. But standing outside or a running van on a sunny day is hot and uncomfortable as well. So, I am back thinking about the the Tesla Powerwall.

I recently installed a 110V A/C unit and a small fridge in the van. Being able to run them without having the van running, or without a generator running outside, would be simply awesome. Camping trips and long-distance travel in the van will be so freaking civilized as if I never left home. Life will be so easy, and I will once again remember that I am living in a first world country.

The Tesla Powerwall is more compact than most other options. It is not silent but at 40 db it is quieter than most refrigerators.

What do you guys think?
 

rayivers

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Well, I'm already on record about this device... About an hour ago I watched a video of one being installed & used in a home in England, it's amazing all the features it has. It also has that '2001, a Space Odyssey' monolith vibe I really like. :)

Powering an Alta fast charger on 240V is roughly equivalent to running a home clothes dryer. It still seems miraculous to me that one can buy a near-silent standalone white slab to do it, especially considering the alternatives.
 

OneLapper

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I've been looking on FB Marketplace and Craigs List for a cheap Honda 240v generator. Some of the older units have 240 and are small at 3500 watts. I'd like find a 4kw Honda with 240 to use at the track. I have several 240v generators but all are diesel and 600 lbs or more. The used Hondas are in the $500 to $1500 range.

Not less expensive, but near silent if it exists, would be a 24vdc to 240vac inverter, likely two 2500 watt units to make 5kw. I have a 12v 2500 watt 120vac inverter kicking around I thought I would try at the track. To do so I would need to pull the four T105 batteries from the RV, and then we're up to 300 pounds minimum.

Two of these http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/inverter-chargers/freedom-sw-24v.aspx, in series and parallel, to make 240vac would work. You'd likely need 4 T305 deep cycle batteries to charge the Alta twice at the track. I haven't done the math, just an educated guess. At this point, the Tesla Wall wouldn't be much more expensive.
 

rayivers

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I wonder if it is possible to charge the Powerwall at Tesla's free charging stations and then power my house from it?

Maybe! The Tesla app in the video I watched appeared to have bidirectional current flow readouts for everything, including the car charger. I don't want to read too much into that, but it wouldn't surprise me at all if Tesla standardized their car & Powerwall charger requirements.
 

Mark911

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It's kinda interesting that the Powerwall is made up of essentially the same cells that power our Altas! Makes sense as Tesla is now manufacturing it's own battery cells at the GigaFactory.
 

allesad

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FYI,
I wonder if it is possible to charge the Powerwall at Tesla's free charging stations and then power my house from it? Then it will surely pay for itself! :p

Tesla Supercharging is free for Model S (Sedan) and Model X (SUV). It's built into the price of the cars. Model 3 (has to pay by the KW, but its as cheap or cheaper than gas/gallon...though each station has local rates). FYI, Powerwalls are actually made from different chemistry than the car batteries. The Supercharger does a "handshake" between the charger and the car when the plug is inserted, communication is started (and logged at Tesla), then the juice starts to flow (slow...then fast). The handshake is the issue that would prevent you from charging your powerwall. Though you could take a Battery Packs/BMS from a wrecked Model S/X and them into your own powerwall and that might work!
 

Philip

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Yeah, that's what I though too. So, ideally, I should figure out a way to charge the Alta from a Tesla Model S/X and then convert that Tesla into a movo van!

Oh, I forgot, I might then have to tow that Tesla home if I have too much fun at the track on my Alta.
 

bluefxstc

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Yeah, that's what I though too. So, ideally, I should figure out a way to charge the Alta from a Tesla Model S/X and then convert that Tesla into a movo van!

Oh, I forgot, I might then have to tow that Tesla home if I have too much fun at the track on my Alta.
Yep, but if you have a Model X you can tow the bike, maybe charge the bike off the car ( have to figure out how to do that) and then charge the car at a super charger station. :unsure: The Tesla's are up to 100kw packs so running out of power shouldn't be too much of a problem.
 

allesad

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What you're asking for is called "V to G" or Vehicle to Grid...or (Vehicle to Home), but in this case Vehicle to Bike! Current hardware on Tesla's do NOT support this. However, it is entirely possible that future models WILL do this? It;s a hot topic in the EV world. What is required outside the car is an inverter box to convert the 400V DC (of the Tesla/Powerwall) to 240 VAC and some critical safety electronics.

FYI, Tesla has 3 batteries (FOB, 12V Lead Acid for HVAC/Lights/ect, and the motor battery pack). Access to the motorpack is the challenge. Many are using the 12V w/inverters to power small appliances.

I've been thinking out it, best approach is to get a powerwall and make it mobile. Charge at home (via the grid?) and top it off with van + ground based solar, while at the track. Here's link to guy who is did something similar with his RV to live off-grid.

Tesla battery module and solar panels power couple's RV lifestyle

All of the naysayers who claim that electric cars will suck up all of the available electricity out there fail to note that a large fleet of batteries distributed nationwide can actually ENHANCE the electric utilities ability to handle such a load. If you think Tesla has been disruptive to the automobile industry, just wait and see what happens to the Utilities once "V to G" becomes a reality.
 

Philip

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I have an update.

NO TESLA POWERWALL FOR ME.

On Sunday I sent $500 to Tesla to reserve a Powerwall. It was fully refundable, so why not? I hoped some technically knowledgeable person from Tesla would call me on Monday and talk me into into installing their product in my van.

That never happened.

Today I re-read the deposit confirmation email, and I noticed it said:

We will reach out to you as Powerwall becomes available in your area.
For questions, please call (725) 333-7731.


So I called. Here is the lowdown:
- The wait is 6-9 months
- Sold and installed only through authorized installers
- The installation cost is $1-3K
- I have to pay the sales tax
- Tesla won't allow an installation in a van
- Called installer -- they won't install in a van.

With the total cost of $8-10K, I'd rather keep my MX indefinitely, or buy a spare (third) Redshift to charge and carry around.

I canceled the order and will be getting my $500 back.

It was an interesting and educational exercise. Thanks, Tesla.
 

rayivers

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Jeez - how disappointing. I assumed from the video I watched that the new-in-box Powerwall arrived via DHL or other carrier, with the buyer choosing to have it installed instead of doing it himself. Given the level of "trust" EV OEM's have in the the technical abilities of end users, now I wonder why I ever would've thought that. :(
 

B37

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There is a much cheaper version of this that you can do with a 24Vdc to 240Vac inverter and one of the 24V tesla S modules. It is a more DIY version, but much cheaper, and one would be plenty. Could also do a 48V inverter with one of tesla smart packs , which actually lets you use more of the pack because of the operating window of the inverter. Otherwise you can get one of the goal zero pack, which is turnkey, but slower charging and lower energy total. I brought a generator when I raced my mxr, and now I am convincing track owners to just let me use their outlets haha. I will eventually do one of these roll your own options.
 

schwankl

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utah
Another turnkey solution:
Products Archive - Humless - The home 10 will do 240v, but costs $15k

Myself: planning on using 2x 5.3kwh 24v tesla modules (have 1 already) and 2x victron multiplus 24/3000/70, but not in a rush and waiting for some sales...Posted in the 240v inverter in van thread some basics on the design, but I will create a thread with the schematics and details...if I don't blow myself up. I have an EE and comp sci background, but have always dealt with low power systems.

220 on the money honey
- mojo nixon

its the hertz that hurt
- my college prof
 

snydes

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Another turnkey solution:
Products Archive - Humless - The home 10 will do 240v, but costs $15k

Myself: planning on using 2x 5.3kwh 24v tesla modules (have 1 already) and 2x victron multiplus 24/3000/70, but not in a rush and waiting for some sales...Posted in the 240v inverter in van thread some basics on the design, but I will create a thread with the schematics and details...if I don't blow myself up. I have an EE and comp sci background, but have always dealt with low power systems.

220 on the money honey
- mojo nixon

its the hertz that hurt
- my college prof

15% off eBay today, capped at $100
 

schwankl

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utah
thanks - getting a multiplus today .... 15% off (100) + 1% ebay bucks (14) + 2% ebates (28) = $142 off ... gonna be extra stingy and use ebay gift cards from smiths/kroger to get 2x $1 off on gas (hey thats another ~$70)
 
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