New to me 2017 MX... Code 33 / 007 charging fault...

Don Thuren

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#1
Hello all!

So glad this forum exists thank you for everything in advance!

I came across a deal I could not pass up. I bought a 2017 MX(vin 039) only 100 miles, but with some charging problems. I have the Multitool cables on order, and I've been reading up on all that should be fun... Anyway figure I would start a thread to record my journey here...

Notes...

  1. Shop and owner said the bike operates fine, but will only charge up to 75%.... I bought as is.
  2. The bike turns on and runs PERFECT as far as I can tell... So fast I'm super excited!
  3. When I key-on, I get a CODE 33 on the dash.
  4. When I plug in the charger, I get a STOPPED: 007 HV isolation
  5. I unplugged the battery top plugs and any connectors I could get to, and blew/dried them out, but no change. I did see some moisture at the bottom of one plug.

So on the moisture thing and regarding all the important electrical connections, and the lack of 100% sealing on many of the connections I can see, I was surprised when I searched here "dielectric" nothing came up... Is it a big no-no to use dielectric grease on these things?

Thank you again!

Don
 

snydes

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#2
Hi Don,
Welcome to the group. Unfortunately it sounds like your bike has an issue that bikes had their batteries replaced under warranty over. The not charging past 75% would be consistent with one of those issues. You have done the next logical step and are getting yourself setup with a laptop, so when you do a screenshot of the battery graph should confirm this almost definitely. Should that be the case the battery would have to come apart so you might want to start putting out feelers for someone to help you with that if needed.
 

Don Thuren

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Bend, Oregon
#3
Hi Don,
Welcome to the group. Unfortunately it sounds like your bike has an issue that bikes had their batteries replaced under warranty over. The not charging past 75% would be consistent with one of those issues. You have done the next logical step and are getting yourself setup with a laptop, so when you do a screenshot of the battery graph should confirm this almost definitely. Should that be the case the battery would have to come apart so you might want to start putting out feelers for someone to help you with that if needed.
Thank you!

The funny thing is that I can't get it to charge at all, but it turns on and rips up my grass perfectly haha! Just doing some test rides and won't let it get below 50% charge just in case... Hoping maybe when the multitool cables get here I can get lucky and it was a little water in a plug that got fixed and just needs codes cleared... It has SO little miles...
 

Rashid510

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#4
Thank you!

The funny thing is that I can't get it to charge at all, but it turns on and rips up my grass perfectly haha! Just doing some test rides and won't let it get below 50% charge just in case... Hoping maybe when the multitool cables get here I can get lucky and it was a little water in a plug that got fixed and just needs codes cleared... It has SO little miles...

The reason why it wont charge is because the DCCP is possibly detecting an isolation fault between the harness, DCCP or the pack. Lots of the early VIN bikes had issues with isolation which were a mix of fixes. Data will help too.
 

Don Thuren

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#6
The reason why it wont charge is because the DCCP is possibly detecting an isolation fault between the harness, DCCP or the pack. Lots of the early VIN bikes had issues with isolation which were a mix of fixes. Data will help too.

I was thinking that the DCCP wires were looking a little janky, when I removed them from the delta wing deal, so I might poke around in there and jiggle wires....
 

OneLapper

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#7
Ok. I was hoping to have nailed down a 100% solution for this very issue before I posted about it.

I'm balls deep on two bikes with this same issue: Won't charge beyond 75%. I ;have a third bike that just started showing symptoms.

I have a 2018 EX and 2017 MX at my shop right now, both with the same issue, both dropped off two days apart of each other.

From what I can gather from talking to our local experts and ex-Alta engineers, it seems one of the two LTC6803 chips on the vhpcb for one module (both module zero on these bikes) has failed. The LTC6803 ic controls the actual P group balancing. From what I can tell, the Alta packs cannot balance at the cell level, only to the P group level (6 cells in parallel). One chip controls 11 P groups, the other controls the rest, 10 P groups. There are a total of 8 LTC6803 chips per battery pack, two per module. Each LTC6803 can control 12 "cells", or a group of cells in parallel, by using integrated MOSFET switching to bring down the voltage of a P group that is too high. The ability to lower the voltage of a P group is very limited, maybe .015vdc. @Mark911 can speak to this more technically, or correct me if I'm mistaken. There is no ability to increase the charge voltage to a P group.

Right now I'm practicing to remove and solder replacement LTC6803 chips. I have ordered micro soldering and solder removal equipment. I have a couple junk hvpcbs that I have been practicing on. When I feel confident that I can do this without ruining the hvpcb, I will attempt to replace the chip on the actual module. I then will need to equalize the voltage on the P groups, then test the packs with several charging cycles.

The last resort is to purchase a known good A pack and use the modules to fix the affected bikes. @Don Thuren , if you're interested in one of the modules, let me know soon. It will not be cheap, but the price of the battery and shipping will be divided by the number of owners that need modules to fix this issue. Right now there are three EX/MX bikes with this issue I'm working on, your bike would be the fourth.

Also, if your bike is updated with 1.5.1 FW, you'll be getting the Code35/Code36 warning on the dash.

And your cable is shipping today. Thank you for the order.
 

Don Thuren

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#9
And your cable is shipping today. Thank you for the order.
Got my cable and everything installed I have Multitool up and running!

Thanks SO much for getting me the cable fast, and thanks to TCMB371 for the install video I would have NEVER figured it out without that!

((( FYI I did not install using VirtualBox, but rather I installed Ubuntu on a 8gb USB drive, so everything is there and not dragging my computer down. Easy to grab and go, too )))

OK so, I THINK I'm in a pretty decent place as the battery looks pretty darn good cells wise!!

Seems like the fault is legit with negative iosolation really low?

Is there a way MT can tell me whats wrong here?


battery data.jpg
 

TCMB371

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#10
Got my cable and everything installed I have Multitool up and running!

Thanks SO much for getting me the cable fast, and thanks to TCMB371 for the install video I would have NEVER figured it out without that!

((( FYI I did not install using VirtualBox, but rather I installed Ubuntu on a 8gb USB drive, so everything is there and not dragging my computer down. Easy to grab and go, too )))

OK so, I THINK I'm in a pretty decent place as the battery looks pretty darn good cells wise!!

Seems like the fault is legit with negative iosolation really low?

Is there a way MT can tell me whats wrong here?


View attachment 4350
How does the battery graph look while you are charging it?
 

OneLapper

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#12
SWEET thank you!!!

Yes I am very interested in buying a known good A pack... Depending on price might be a better investment to just buy a known good running 2017 full bike?

PM me please with a price and whatnot when you have time thanks!
The idea is to use a known good pack and distribute the good modules in exchange for the old modules. Hopefully I can then fix the old modules and keep the exchange process going forward for any future MX/EX bikes that did not get their packs warranty exchanged.
 

snydes

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#14
OK so, I THINK I'm in a pretty decent place as the battery looks pretty darn good cells wise!!
Graph looks just fine. Typically you want to check it at different charge levels but there is nothing there as far as imbalances that should be causing a problem. With Onelappers recent rash of problem A packs I was expecting it to look much like the screenshot he posted.
 

Don Thuren

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#15
Thanks guys!

Yeah I was EXPECTING a bunch of low cells and I was shocked when they weren't!

So now tips on where should I look to get my isolation numbers looking better!?!?!??!?
 

Mark911

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#17
Problem with isolation issues is that multitool doesn't say WHERE the problem is, just that you have low isolation. Could be a problem in the pack, DCCP or Inverter. I believe you can unplug the DCCP and inverter LV connectors to see if the isolation values change (one at a time) but I've never tried it. You'd be able to a least determine in a gross sense where the issue exists. If you were hip you could also unplug the pack and run a external power source to determine if that was the problem area as well, but it takes more knowledge and tools.
 

Don Thuren

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#19
Okay. Lot of information. Lets go through this.

@Don Thuren what is the fault flag that your getting in MT? At the moment, I believe the issues @OneLapper has are independent of yours. Honestly yours might be more related to the DCCP or the DCCP harness.

Code 33 on MT, and MT notes very low number 230-260 KOHMS negative isolation..

Weird thing is if the bike sits for a while and I key-on MT will be 260 KOHMS, then cycle the key again 255 KOHMS, cycle again and 250 KOHMS, again 240 KOHMS.... It keeps going lower as I cycle the key over and over....

I unplugged the DCCP harness that connects to the charger, and no change on KOHMS.
 

Don Thuren

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#20
Problem with isolation issues is that multitool doesn't say WHERE the problem is, just that you have low isolation. Could be a problem in the pack, DCCP or Inverter. I believe you can unplug the DCCP and inverter LV connectors to see if the isolation values change (one at a time) but I've never tried it. You'd be able to a least determine in a gross sense where the issue exists. If you were hip you could also unplug the pack and run a external power source to determine if that was the problem area as well, but it takes more knowledge and tools.

Interesting I may try disconnecting the LV cables like you say.. External power source would be way over my head....
 

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