Honda EU2200 issue..


OneLapper

"You don't *really* need the water pump...."
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#1
EDIT: Condition described below is cause by the generator being "Neutral Floating" which by nature does not work with GFCI plugs, such as installed on the Alta chargers. The fix is to use a jumper in the other electrical outlet which connects the ground pin to the neutral pin, thus "bonding" neutral to ground, satisfying the chargers GFCI circuit. All Honda inverter generators are Neutral Floating except for the EU6500 and EU7000. Certain "Industrial" Honda model exist, the EB series, which have bonded neutrals.

I have been using a 6500w 240v Honda generator to charge my Alta at the J Day races I've been going to. In addition to charging the bike I use that big generator to keep the RV running. The big Honda runs great, but the two issues are that the people that we camp with at these events bust my balls about the loud Honda (it's not an inverter style gen and it's not even that loud), and secondly, getting the thing in and out of the pickup truck. BTW, my co-campers all use the Harbor Freight 3500 Predator inverter gen and swear by it.

For 20 years I've had a Honda EU1000 generator that was perfect for small jobs, hand tools, etc. It would keep the batteries topped off on the big RV, run the refrigerator, lights, etc., all while running almost silently. I accidentally killed that generator a few weeks ago, but in the mean time I sorta got excited with the thoughts of what I would replace it with! Without boring you, I came to the conclusion that having a small generator is priority so I decided to get the EU2200 with the plan to get the EU2200 Companion generator and the parallel cables to run the AC unit on the RV (max of 3600watts continuous, 4400 surge when runnning both gens). No 240vac solution for the Alta charger but I still have the 6500w Honda if I need it.

I had an event this weekend and purchased a new EU2200, headed to Unadilla MX and discovered that the Alta charger's GFCI doesn't like the Honda, the reset button on the yellow GFCI won't stay in, therefore it won't charge. The work around was to plug the RV into the EU22, then plug the Alta's charger into the RV, and everything worked fine for the weekend. I don't know if it was a function of the 110vac or the new generator, but it took a LONG TIME to balance the cells, almost 2 hours. I hadn't used the bike since the NE 24 Challenge, and at that event the bike only got partial or quick charges. I guess the cells were pretty out of balance.

So, there's a ground issue with the charger and EU2200. Has anyone run across this issue yet?

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C5tor

Well-known member
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San Ramon, CA
#3
I have been using a 6500w 240v Honda generator to charge my Alta at the J Day races I've been going to. In addition to charging the bike I use that big generator to keep the RV running. The big Honda runs great, but the two issues are that the people that we camp with at these even bust my balls about the loud Honda (it's not an inverter style gen) it's not even that loud, and getting the thing in and out of the pickup truck. BTW, they all use the Harbor Freight 3500 Predator inverter gen and swear by it.

For 20 years I've had a Honda EU1000 generator that was perfect for small jobs, hand tools, etc. It would keep the batteries topped off on the big RV, run the refrigerator, lights, etc., all while running almost silently. I accidentally killed that generator a few weeks ago. In the mean time I got excited with the thoughts of what I would replace it with! Without boring you, I came to the conclusion that having a small generator is priority so I decided to get the EU2200 with the plan to get the EU2200 Companion generator and the parallel cables to run the AC unit on the RV (max of 3600watts continuous, 4400 surge when runnning both gens). No 240vac solution for the Alta charger but I still have the 6500w Honda.

I had an event this weekend and purchased a new EU2200, headed to Unadilla MX and discovered that the Alta charger's GFCI doesn't like the Honda, the reset button on the yellow GFCI won't stay in, therefore it won't charge. The work around was to plug the RV into the EU22, then plug the Alta's charger into the RV, and everything worked fine for the weekend. I don't know if it was a function of the 110vac or the new generator, but it took a LONG TIME to balance the cells, almost 2 hours. I hadn't used the bike since the NE 24 Challenge, and at that event the bike only got partial or quick charges. I guess the cells were pretty out of balance.

So, there's a ground issue with the charger and EU2200. Has anyone run across this issue yet?





View attachment 3736

Were you really running the generator on rum? I’m thinking that was why it blew up.
 
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Location
Wild West County
#5
I had a honda 2k, not the 2200 that had immediate draw down issues, same with the EU3000is that I have now, I cannot recall how many amps of 110V power the fast charger takes on 110 but I recall it being significant.

The issue lies with the capacitors on the generator, once they experience rapid draw down it sends the over-current warning light as its consuming more than the generator can put out continuously, triggering the circuit to break, and you to power cycle the generator.

Plugging into the RV may have given it some load to run on briefly? Maybe some extra resistance to slow the draw from the generator, allowing it to catch up over a short window of time. Maybe the wire acted as additional capacitance as it holds and electric field???

see self capacitance: Capacitance - Wikipedia

My 3k will pump 2600-2800watts continuously, and will BARELY start my 1.5hp air compressor. I have found that if I use a hair dryer (variable power) to get the genny up to power production that I can switch it over to significant loads, where normally starting with these loads will trip the breaker.
 

leeo45

Geezer in denial
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Lake Hartwell, SC
#7
I have used my old trusty eu2000 to charge my Alta without issue, although only below 5000 feet of elevation. And never had any issue with the GFCI on either of my generators.

So I guess I'm not much help.

Exact same experience for me with the EU2000. The only other comment is that I turn off the ECO mode so that the generator is constantly running at high RPM.

The bike would stop the charging process with the ECO mode engaged on the EU2000. It seems that the generator does not respond quickly enough to the current demand of the bike and the controller shuts off the charging process. However, I don't recall ever triggering the GFCI.

I have never needed to run a separate ground wire on either of my Honda inverter generators when charging the ALTA.

P.S. Cool looking Airstream !
 

OneLapper

"You don't *really* need the water pump...."
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#8
Exact same experience for me with the EU2000. The only other comment is that I turn off the ECO mode so that the generator is constantly running at high RPM.

The bike would stop the charging process with the ECO mode engaged on the EU2000. It seems that the generator does not respond quickly enough to the current demand of the bike and the controller shuts off the charging process. However, I don't recall ever triggering the GFCI.

I have never needed to run a separate ground wire on either of my Honda inverter generators when charging the ALTA.

P.S. Cool looking Airstream !

Thanks on the Airstream! We spent years looking for the right one, this is a 1970 and it's in pretty good shape.

This issue isn't that the EU22 doesn't have enough power, its that the GFCI wont stay "reset" for power to get to the charger. There is something in the generator that box isn't seeing. I'll have to experiment to get it work.....
 
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Daytona Beach
#10
Here's my hack, I have WEN 2000W inverter (Honda imitation) was popping GFCI immediately when I plugged charger in.
$1.75 at home depot, actually built it in the aisle. Plug it into other none used generator outlet and you are good to go!

(FYI..I got this from RVers, they tend to pop the GFCI on the RV when using portable generators, essentially the GFCI is very sensitive so it keeps popping due to a slight difference between ground and neutral, this will put em at the same potential (or something like that) and no more GFCI pop,...FYI though, your GFCI will no longer work properly, basically disabled)

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Location
Canada
#11
I had the same issue with my Honda Eg2800. I did exactly what you are not supposed to do and simply removed the GFCI from my charger, and have had no issues.

My research told me the issue was with having a floating neutral in the generator, verses the more desirable bonded neutral.
 

OneLapper

"You don't *really* need the water pump...."
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#12
I had the same issue with my Honda Eg2800. I did exactly what you are not supposed to do and simply removed the GFCI from my charger, and have had no issues.

My research told me the issue was with having a floating neutral in the generator, verses the more desirable bonded neutral.
Ah! I bet you're completely right. Floating vs bonded neutral. I'll poke around inside the generator but taking that thing apart is a bitch (at least the EU1000 was). I think I like your not recommended solution...... not that you mentioned or recommended it.
 

OneLapper

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#15
The condition described above is cause by the EU2200 generator being "Neutral Floating" which by nature does not work with GFCI plugs, such as installed on the Alta chargers. The fix is to use a jumper in the other electrical outlet which connects the ground pin to the neutral pin (as @raysted has demonstrated), thus "bonding" neutral to ground, satisfying the chargers GFCI circuit. All Honda inverter generators are Neutral Floating except for the EU6500 and EU7000. Certain "Industrial" Honda model exist, the EB series, which have bonded neutrals.
 

OneLapper

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#16
I took a quick look inside my EU2200. It seems pretty easy to splice in a wire to ground using the neutral wire on the parallel cable circuit. If I install a m/f spade terminal on this new wire, I can open up the access panel and connect the spade terminals to bond neutral, then I can pull it apart to un-bond neutral if I choose to feed the gen transfer switch on the electrical panel in my house (the transfer switch handles the neutral bonding).

Access is pretty tight in that generator, but this weekend I'll have time to tackle it.
 

Redwolf

My dog thinks I'm cool
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Brinnon, Wa.
#17
This must be an change with the newer Honda units. My EU2000 is an older model and I have no issue with the GFCI. I may have just a little less power, but I can charge my bike without modifying the generator.
 

OneLapper

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#18
I agree, I think there was a running change. For haha's I tried my EU1000 when I got the Alta, it didn't trip the GFCI. I ran across some OSHA or ART law regarding bonded vs floating neutral. I didn't take the time to research further.
 

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