Owner's Review 10 minute review


Philip

Administrator
Staff member
Likes
2,484
Location
Ann Arbor, MI
#43
Local suspension guy turned me onto a cheap version of that: Cut a section of innertube and slip it over the grip and lever.
I rarely thrown away old inner tubes. Usually they get cut into rubber bands.

It should be even possible to keep that rubber band nearby. Either on the front brake lever, or somewhere not far away, in case it is needed.

I use a heavy-duty velcro tie when I transport heavy bikes in my van. Although 2-3 of those rubber bands would work just as well.
 

Bionicman

owner of deleted file
Likes
311
Location
WA
#44
Question for some of the more aggressive riders - Have you noticed during corner entry the regen rear wheel input being somewhat inconsistent or doing something funny? Typically on an ICE bike engine braking is very predictable? I’ll need some more seat time...

No maintenance-I call BS! Less than 100 miles & im already shopping for new tires!
I assume the EXR has no rim locks as they are not DOT compliant?
 

rayivers

Well-known member
Likes
236
Location
CT, USA
#45
Have you noticed during corner entry the regen rear wheel input being somewhat inconsistent or doing something funny?
Not sure about my aggression level, but I have noticed the Alta regen is very different from Zero's. The regen on my Alta seems to get stronger the more the bike slows, almost like auto-braking. The Zero normal regen is just a linear drag effect (adjustable), and there's also adjustable braking-only regen activated by the brake-light switches.

IMO the Alta-type regen does a better job of simulating ICE engine braking, but coming from an adjustable-regen (30% of max) electric it really messes with my 'flow'. At some point I'll post a bike review with more detail now that I've got some time on the bike.
 

Bionicman

owner of deleted file
Likes
311
Location
WA
#46
Not sure about my aggression level, but I have noticed the Alta regen is very different from Zero's. The regen on my Alta seems to get stronger the more the bike slows, almost like auto-braking. The Zero normal regen is just a linear drag effect (adjustable), and there's also adjustable braking-only regen activated by the brake-light switches.

IMO the Alta-type regen does a better job of simulating ICE engine braking, but coming from an adjustable-regen (30% of max) electric it really messes with my 'flow'. At some point I'll post a bike review with more detail now that I've got some time on the bike.
Interesting comment on variable regen depending on speed... I think this topic calls for a specific thread
 

Fod

Well-known member
Likes
304
Location
CA
#47
If your battery is full, it can't regen as much as if the battery is capable of more storage. So engine break when battery is topped off will be much less then when your a couple laps into your moto. That's what I have noticed. I know you asked for aggressive rider, But that's the extent of my experience...Sorry though, I am not that aggressive of a rider.
 

Bionicman

owner of deleted file
Likes
311
Location
WA
#48
If your battery is full, it can't regen as much as if the battery is capable of more storage. So engine break when battery is topped off will be much less then when your a couple laps into your moto. That's what I have noticed. I know you asked for aggressive rider, But that's the extent of my experience...Sorry though, I am not that aggressive of a rider.
the inputs all the same - a interesting topic for the guys battling for the weekend wood for sure.... I would think the bike would be fully capable of bleeding off the excess energy to remain consistent feedback to the rider?
the inconsistency in bike feedback can have negative results for a rider seeking 210ths a lap I would guess
would be interesting to hear others experiences
 

Fog 25

Well-known member
Likes
363
Location
Castaic ca
#49
Question for some of the more aggressive riders - Have you noticed during corner entry the regen rear wheel input being somewhat inconsistent or doing something funny? Typically on an ICE bike engine braking is very predictable? I’ll need some more seat time...
A more aggressive rider won’t feel the regen because he or she would have the throttle open so the regen won’t be working.
 

rayivers

Well-known member
Likes
236
Location
CT, USA
#50
A more aggressive rider won’t feel the regen
Maybe not, but they'll certainly notice stopping short of corner after corner until they adjust their riding style to suit the motorcycle's deceleration characteristics. If they're a 2t guy like I am, after they adapt to the Alta they'll likely then find themselves overshooting corners on the 2t. It really should be adjustable.
 

strider

Well-known member
Likes
166
Location
NE Oklahoma
#51
Regen is tricky. As @Fod said, the regen energy has to go somewhere. If it can't go into the battery the bike won't regen. All EVs have this issue. Electric car manufacturers have looked at adding a big heat sink (literally a large resistive heater like a toaster) or actually using battery power to apply reverse power to the motor (I don't know the term, I'm not a EE) to simulate regen to make the feel the same. Still others stop charging short of 100% in order to give head room to provide regen even when the battery is "full." Alta is doing what Tesla does and make it up to the operator. If you charge to 100% you will not have regen until enough battery power is used to allow regen to happen.

Lots of things are possible, just a matter of writing the code...
 

strider

Well-known member
Likes
166
Location
NE Oklahoma
#52
Not sure about my aggression level, but I have noticed the Alta regen is very different from Zero's. The regen on my Alta seems to get stronger the more the bike slows, almost like auto-braking. The Zero normal regen is just a linear drag effect (adjustable), and there's also adjustable braking-only regen activated by the brake-light switches.

IMO the Alta-type regen does a better job of simulating ICE engine braking, but coming from an adjustable-regen (30% of max) electric it really messes with my 'flow'. At some point I'll post a bike review with more detail now that I've got some time on the bike.
Based on your feeling, the Alta is providing a constant level of regen, not a constant rate of deceleration. The regen gets stronger as you slow because it takes less energy to slow down a slower moving object than a faster one. Since the amount of energy being recaptured by the bike stays the same, the bike will slow down quicker the slower you are going.

On the Zero they are decreasing regen as you slow down in order to keep deceleration at the same rate.
 

C5tor

Well-known member
Likes
248
Location
San Ramon, CA
#53
Regen is tricky. As @Fod said, the regen energy has to go somewhere. If it can't go into the battery the bike won't regen. All EVs have this issue. Electric car manufacturers have looked at adding a big heat sink (literally a large resistive heater like a toaster) or actually using battery power to apply reverse power to the motor (I don't know the term, I'm not a EE) to simulate regen to make the feel the same. Still others stop charging short of 100% in order to give head room to provide regen even when the battery is "full." Alta is doing what Tesla does and make it up to the operator. If you charge to 100% you will not have regen until enough battery power is used to allow regen to happen.

Lots of things are possible, just a matter of writing the code...
Diesel-electric locomotives have huge fans and heat exchangers to dissipate the heat generated by dynamic braking, switching the electric motors to generators and running through resistor grids to convert the excess energy into heat. I assume there may be hybrid locomotives that could use the electricity as regen for batteries instead of rheostatic conversion to heat, but I haven’t looked into current locomotive tech. But a pretty cool setup if you gotta slow down hundreds of tons of train.
 

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